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Career Advice in Oracle field

Discussion in 'Coffee Corner' started by smitamishra6, May 21, 2013.

  1. smitamishra6

    smitamishra6 Active Member

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    Hi All,
    Myself Smita, completed MCA in the year 2012.
    Presently i'm doing job in Delhi in Sales & Marketting field. I wanted to switch over as this job is completely different from my career. I have knowledge about Sql and database concept ,Moreover i have done a project in my last sem of MCA by using PHP and MYSQl from National Informatics Center Govt.of India. Few days ago i got to know about this site. As my interest always refer to Oracle field , I wanted proper guidance to this oracle field.
    please provide me information about details in Oracle database job, Is it mandatory for freshers to qualify certifications in Oracle to get a job? If it is then please provide me the information about the job opportunity for freshers in oracle. Time of certifications etc..

    Hope a good response

    thanks a lot

    Best Regards
    Smita
     
  2. ac.arijit

    ac.arijit Forum Advisor

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    Hi Smita,

    No, its not mandatory. But it adds to your profile like a gem. Basically, here u gotta understand the employer's perspective, if an employer's affordability and scale of business is limited then he/she will try to get amateur ppl with sufficient qualifications in a certain range of CTC. (These are mostly unorganized organizations and are a good platform in initial stages to explore and gather experience, u gotta make the most of the playground which u get over here)

    Or, else in organized houses, they've a set of recruitment policies and prefer your capabilities, certifications, achievements, aptitude over the CTC. (But remember, these organizations don't provide u the scope to explore and it'll be a limited domain)

    So, if u wanna directly wanna jump onto the TITANIC yes u'll need certifications as an essential one. Or If u first wanna explore the ocean taking a dinghy then u don't. Its your call (my personal advice is, go for dinghies at initial stages and then after gathering experience jump onto the TITANIC and be the cap'n not a sailer) ;)

    **Note: Certifications are done every month. Mostly towards the last in b/w 20-30. Get registered with an OTN Partner for certifications.
     
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  3. smitamishra6

    smitamishra6 Active Member

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    Hi Ari,

    Thanks for your response

    Could you please provide the information about some organisation name in which fresher can get jobs in oracle?


    Regards
    Smita
     
  4. zargon

    zargon Community Moderator Forum Guru

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    I do not know where you are but where I am (the US) such Oracle Certifications aren't worth the paper they are printed on. HR likes to see mention of certification on resumes/CVs but the technical managers look for experience and work-related knowledge rather than the classroom education required for Oracle certification. I cannot tell you how many OCP candidates I have turned down because of their lack of actual work experience; book knowledge is not enough to get and keep a job as an Oracle DBA in the US. The 'jewel' here is actual on-the-job experience; given the auditing regulations and security concerns someone with only an OCP on paper isn't likely to get a job as an Oracle DBA with any major corporation.

    Do you not know that the TITANIC sank years ago, on its maiden voyage? Anyone who wants to jump on that ship now needs to give that act another thought.
     
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  5. smitamishra6

    smitamishra6 Active Member

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    Hello David,

    Certification has some value. But you are right work experience is more important than a certification. Its really needed in current market. I really appreciate your view.

    If you provide more information about Oracle entry jobs opportunities specifically for freshers, it will become a great help for me.

    Thanks a lot

    Smita
     
  6. zargon

    zargon Community Moderator Forum Guru

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    The value placed on certification is small in the tech world; it's much greater to HR as they want such certifications to prove proficiency. Certifications, in general, do nothing for proficiency as no actual hands-on work is requred to attain them. Yes, the Oracle Certified Master program does require two days of hands-on work to prove a candidates knowledge but one can receive an OCM certificate without having touched a database in real-world situations.

    Knowledge is power , true, but experience is gold.
     
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  7. smitamishra6

    smitamishra6 Active Member

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    Knowledge is power , true, but experience is gold

    But why the recruiters are not able to understand that experience can be gain only by giving an opportunity to someone? Its really sad in Current market also.

    How can one will get entry to desired field ? Because refference make sense moreover work experience. Its very hectic.

    Smita
     
  8. ac.arijit

    ac.arijit Forum Advisor

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    Hi Smita,

    I can understand the frustration coz we've all been and going through such phases. Its the same thought in every freshers mind (and its justified too). But as i emphasized earlier also, u gotta understand the employer's POV. Just imagine urself on the other side of the table and probably u'll get it (there are thousands of similar talent in our country and how to choose 1 of 'em). That's the puzzle infront of 'em.
    And moreover, u know what; no matter how much u impress and convince the interviewer (HR or Tech). In India (top IT companies), its not only the interviewers call infact there's a chain of short-listers who approve the candidates. As u can't show u're talent on paper unless u've got something to prove that talent, this is where u need certifications as a fresher (or if u got 3-4+ work exp then the former gets secondary). That's why i suggested that u go with small scale IT companies first, gather exp and then u can approach (then u'll have an upper hand over other candidates) and meanwhile if u get certifications cleared then its wonder (its not that tough as David mentioned and can always be an advantage).

    I believe u're in India, Plz temme the city u're in so i can do a short brainstorm (if u wanna go with the small scale IT companies as they usually don't have that much widespread network and often operate in one region) .. or else if u wanna have a try out for big orgs then in India i guess u know it well (TCS/INFOSYS/COGNIZANT/WIPRO/IBM/PATNI etc etc)
     
  9. smitamishra6

    smitamishra6 Active Member

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    Thanks a lot to the members of this site for immediate response

    Yes a small company can teaches more, That experience helps to climb the big one.

    By d way I'm Indian from Capital of India.



    Thanks!
    Smita
     
  10. Abigail111

    Abigail111 Active Member

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    Although i am new here,i found Oracle is greate for me.And i am very happy to join you
     
  11. Nidhi25

    Nidhi25 Forum Genius

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    You can register for some functional trainings in SCM/Finance/Projects/CRM. Please send your queries to aug25_groups@yahoo.co.in for online training.
     
  12. ocprep

    ocprep Forum Advisor

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    This is by no means an absolute. This is obviously a strongly-held opinion of yours, but it is still an opinion and you are presenting it as a fact.

    I've been working with Oracle for almost twenty years and have been an OCP since the program was first introduced. Over the years, I have encountered a number of Oracle professionals who feel, as you do, that the certifications mean nothing. If someone with this opinion is making the decision on who will be hired for a given opening, then having a certification on your resume likely won't be a positive influence on you getting the position.

    That said, in my experience, these people have been in the minority. Most people that I have met consider it to be a positive factor for prospective new hires. The level of importance people attribute to certifications varies widely by the individual. I will say that it is not just HR who looks at certifications. The hiring managers often use certifications as a means to filter prospective job candidates -- especially if they have little knowledge of Oracle themselves. You can argue that this is not ideal, but it does happen.

    I have no argument with the mantra that experience trumps certifications. However, experience plus certifications trumps experience alone -- all other factors being equal. In the case of people entering the field, no experience plus certifications beats no experience by itself. That after all is the situation the original poster is in. That still does not mean certifications are required. In addition, gaining one or more certainly does not guarantee someone will give you a job.

    On my blog I have written a number of articles about starting out with Oracle and certifications. The common thread through all of my various articles on the topic is that the single most important element of earning a certification in Oracle is the part where you study for the exam. Oracle professionals get paid good wages because Oracle knowledge is valuable. If you want to have a really successful career as an Oracle professional, then learn as much as you can about Oracle as fast as you can.
     
  13. Amitysoft14

    Amitysoft14 Active Member

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    Hi Friends!

    Here i Fully read your forum discussion informations, It's gives me an idea about my career. Now i'm clear what i'm doing. Thank you all for your valuable informations, Keep in touch with me... :)
     
  14. zargon

    zargon Community Moderator Forum Guru

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    "... the single most important element of earning a certification in Oracle is the part where you study for the exam. Oracle professionals get paid good wages because Oracle knowledge is valuable. "


    My point entirely; my response is directed at those who gain certification through 'brain dumps' and other methods Oracle may consider as cheating; knowledge does not need to be production knowledge, but it does need to be actual experience with the product, and sadly what I see online is a plethora of people looking for certification without doing the work simply to reap the benefits of a good-paying career.


    I certified when the program started; back then it was required to have at least 5 years of field experience before you could take any of the exams. It degenerated, in my opinion, to an exercise in 'repeat after me' when the actual work experience requirement was removed in favor of 'book learning' from Oracle University. This sent the program downhill quickly, again in MY opinion, and when I interview OCPs I see many who can't do the work or think their way through a problem. I also know many OCPs who can do the work and whom I admire. Unfortunately the latter are getting fewer in number.


    It's a big world, and it takes all kinds to populate it. You've obviously been fortunate in that the only OCPs you see aren't just OCPs on paper, they have relevant work experience and can think on their own. I have seen the other side of that coin, more often than not, including dealing with those who would pay anything to cheat through a certification exam. My experience obviously flies in the face of yours; there's nothing wrong with that. My comments are based on my experiences, experiences you've obviously not had. That doesn't invalidate my experience, and mine doesn't invalidate yours. I'm glad you find the cheaters and inexperienced in the minority; I unfortunately have not.
     
  15. ocprep

    ocprep Forum Advisor

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    Aaaiiieee! No. That's not what I said. I re-read my post just to see if I inadvertently implied such a thing. :)

    I agree with you that cheating is rampant in the certification field. I have written many articles and blog entries about the practice and why it is harmful both to people already certified and to the individuals doing the cheating. Much of what I do is targeted specifically at making brain dumps less attractive to certification candidates. While some people certainly want to cheat, I believe (hope) others use dumps primarily because they can be obtained more cheaply than legitimate materials. To this end, I've created a series of low-cost study guides, gathered links to free (and certification-safe) study materials on my website, and made non-dump practice tests available at a fraction of the cost of what anyone else charges. I have also made suggestions to the Oracle Certification Program on ways to help candidates avoid inadvertently using dumps. I despise brain dump providers.

    What my post took issue with was your statement indicating "The value placed on certification is small in the tech world".

    If you were to make the statement that cheaters seriously reduce the value of certifications, I would agree wholeheartedly.
    If you were to make the statement that cheaters effectively eliminate the value of certifications, I would disagree vehemently.

    That said, I'm going to switch roles and act as devil's advocate for a minute. Even if we were to discount cheaters entirely and assume everyone who took Oracle certification tests did so using legitimate study materials... you still couldn't assume that every one of them was competent at the role they earned a certification for. Passing the Admin I and II exams doesn't necessarily mean someone will be a good DBA. Passing the PL/SQL exams certainly doesn't mean they can write decent code. However, being a good DBA means knowing a lot of the information covered in the Admin I and II exams. Being a good developer requires understanding a lot of the syntax rules and coding practices covered in the PL/SQl track exams. As a way of going from zero to something... the certification exams are a reasonable option.

    Job listings for Oracle personnel often specify certifications as either a requirement or a like-to-have. Hiring decisions are (sometimes) influenced by certifications. By definition, this means that certifications have value in many cases.

    The distinction I am making is that you (any many others -- you are certainly not alone) place little value on certifications because you have seen the effect of people who cheat... or who simply memorize facts for long enough to pass an exam. By contrast, I tell people that the little piece of paper means very little by itself, but that the knowledge represented by the paper is very valuable indeed. People who have the paper... but not the knowledge generally make their ignorance obvious fairly rapidly.

    You seemed to be recommending against getting certified entirely. My recommendation is to get certified, but in doing so to put in the effort to really learn the information being tested.
     
  16. zargon

    zargon Community Moderator Forum Guru

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    I do not recommend against being certified, period. What I 'rail' against are those who think certification is EVERYTHING, the MAGIC BULLET to secure a well-paying job as an Oracle DBA, that all they need do is regurgitate brain dumps at the exam site to 'earn' their certification. I see many of these people angling to get that piece of paper any way they can, even to the point wanting others who paid for the exam materials to freely give them away so the 'wannabees' can join the Oracle DBA club.


    Education is paramount, knowledge is power. Unfortunately those who cheat the system (or make every effort to do so) devalue the process for those who do the work, gain the knowledge and experience and actually EARN that certification. Many of the companies I have dealt with have tech departments who are at odds with HR about certifications. HR wants them, yet the tech managers see a steady parade of 'certified' candidates who can't handle the job set before them, results of being certified solely based on 'book learning', with no relevant experience to back it up.


    My issue is the mindset that simply having the certification is the golden key to Oracle nirvana. It isn't, and it never has been. Those who think it is need to know better. My grandfather taught me that if something is worth doing then do it well, or not at all. Half-assed attempts, those 'efforts' that are based on the least amount of work deemed necessary to barely attain the desired goal, are useless as those who fail to learn the material and learn how to apply it are doomed. Jobs are lost even faster than they are attained by those who won't listen to reason and choose to put forth even less than the minimal effort required to read and learn material. They can't see that they will be found out eventually and in the course of such action put a 'bad taste' in the mouths of hiring managers, causing them to possibly shy away from 'certified' Oracle DBAs in favor of those absent certification but rich in work experience.


    Certify, but do it properly and do it well. LEARN the material, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. One can't get by on cheating, either in certification or at the job interview (a topic for another time).
     
  17. ocprep

    ocprep Forum Advisor

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    David:

    The post immediately above is one that I agree fully with every point about certifications and the mindsets of some people towards them. My initial post in this thread was directed at yours from 05-22-2013. Looking at the dates now, I realize I was guilty of making this into a zombie thread since your posts were from almost a year earlier. I don't even recall at this point how I ran across this thread in the first place.
     
  18. Med

    Med Guest

    Some can give some advice..??
     
  19. Tarun Anant

    Tarun Anant Active Member

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    Hi to ALL,

    I have been working on Oracle Apps for the past almost 2 years in a heavy manufacturing company.I have completed engg in Computer Science and joined this company as fresher and came to know about 'what exactly Oracle Apps is ' in this company itself. I have been working under the supervision of few experienced persons.My role is that of a functional consultant and I have gained some knowledge.
    But the issue is "the more I learn the more I realize that much more is still to be learnt".
    I have worked in INV,WIP,BOM and have knowledge in O2C and P2P cycles.But I feel like 'Jack of all trades and master of none '. Moreover I am trying to switch over to next company but I have many queries in my mind.

    So I would like put up the following questions to all concerned who can help:

    1)What are the different types of prospective jobs for a person having Oracle apps functional experience and what these different jobs require out of a candidate ?
    2) Is having technical knowledge a must coz I have not come across any employer(in Job Portals) looking for candidates having only Functional experience.

    List of doubts/questions in my mind is endless, but the 2 questions mentioned above would do for now.

    I would urge everyone who sees this post to help me and bring peace to my mind......
    Thanks in Advance.

    Regards
    Tarun
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015